Topic: BattleClinic's Guide to Wormholes

[SghnDubh]

Here's a handy guide that helps you understand how to find wormholes efficiently. Chock full of useful tips and tricks, this guide is written by Vessper of EVE-HQ fame.

As always, we welcome your comments and suggestions for making our guides and tools better. Thanks, enjoy, and Fight Smart(tm)!

[Contralto]

Well done Vess'  nice guide.  Pics really make it easy to understand.

[GoingOffRoading]

Downloading now... Thanks!

[LiveFreeOrDie]

Great guide Vessper! Very well written. Thanks!

[Obraxis]

Sleepers are just too hard..  i went in solo, took a raven fully loaded t2, even with multi WCS, u get warp scrambled. . t2 Cruise missiles do no damage, and the raven pop's in seconds... its almost IMPOSSIBLE solo wormhole space in anything less than a capital ship, but why do that and risk losing one?..... wot i don't get is the difficulty i think ccp should rethink this as anyone in battlecruiser's or less would be futile to enter wormhole space.. wot would be really helpful is a fitting and loadout guide effective against sleepers.... as both pvp and pve setups don't work...

[Vessper]

There are actually several difficulty "levels" of wormhole systems and from the sound of it, you managed to find one that wasn't the easiest.

The easiest systems contain only cruisers and frigates and these can be solo'd in a good BC/BS/CS PvE setup. As you get to the intermediate and harder levels, the Sleepers get harder to kill and do more damage and you'll find that you need to bring support. When you get to the toughest levels, you need to have a lot of support and use capital ships to avoid being instapopped.

It is possible to solo wormhole systems, but you need to be selective. Experience will eventually tell you which wormholes you can enter and which ones are too difficult.

[Obraxis]

ill venture in again, maybe the same hole if its still there, but i think this time ill stick to t1.. as its too expensive to keep experimenting with expensive setups.. i read missiles are the way to go.. however, i was thinking of taking in an abaddon with t2 lasers?? this time...  drones are pretty much usless tho do take the heat off when in trouble.. have any of u guys come across a good setup... bareing in mind free hislots for probe launcher and salvager//tractor (maybe cloak) is cloak really necessary?

[Vessper]

I've not seen any hard data on Sleeper resists so I don't know which would be the best damage type to go for. At least missiles will give you the choice and with a little testing and combat log review, you should be able to work out the best damage type.

A cloak may be useful depending on how paranoid you are about someone else jumping through the wormhole and wanting to ruin your day. You may also want to consider dropping the tractor and slowboating to the wrecks in order to save a high slot.

[Ezekiel Sulastin]

Sleepers are just too hard..  i went in solo, took a raven fully loaded t2, even with multi WCS, u get warp scrambled. {...} its almost IMPOSSIBLE solo wormhole space {...}

. . . uhhhhh, isn't that the ENTIRE FREAKING POINT of wormhole-space PvE?  Have you bothered to research it at all?

Read the devblogs, read other people's reactions, read the guides, get a gang together, and go do WH space properly instead of treating it as yet another L4-or-ratting-esque solo grindfest.

Also, on drones - sentry drones might provide a useful bit of additional DPS, as you can scoop them quickly if they come under fire.  I know they're what I used when I took a RR-domi into a wormhole ...

[malcheus]

I was hoping for some more details on sleepers (damage types, resistance etc.)
but still a good guide for beginners. I would like to add that is it possible to scan sleeper sites with your on board scanner, if you warp to the sun, and use the on-board, most of the time, some sleeper sites show in the results.

[Reikso Feesh]

. . . uhhhhh, isn't that the ENTIRE FREAKING POINT of wormhole-space PvE? 

I agree here, Wormholes have provided us with a whole new aspect to the game that I find very appealing - it's changed the rules of PvE totally, and all of a sudden we have to think up all-new strategies to deal with it. It's been a lot of fun! Expensive, soul-chilling fun!

[Vessper]

I was hoping for some more details on sleepers (damage types, resistance etc.)
but still a good guide for beginners. I would like to add that is it possible to scan sleeper sites with your on board scanner, if you warp to the sun, and use the on-board, most of the time, some sleeper sites show in the results.

Unfortunately, the specific details of Sleepers have been omitted from the data export so as I mentioned above, it is difficult to get any confirmation of what type of resists they have. But, looking at some previous damage logs, it looks like it's in the 75% region for even the easiest ships.

Thanks for pointing out the on-board scanner method. I have used this before and it does pick up the cosmic anomolies that contain Sleepers.

[varikina]

[varikina]

[RedElvaan]

Ausome buddy keep it up and I thank you very much ^_^

[Zach 101]

Sleepers are just too hard.. i went in solo, took a raven fully loaded t2, even with multi WCS, u get warp scrambled. . t2 Cruise missiles do no damage, and the raven pop's in seconds... its almost IMPOSSIBLE solo wormhole space in anything less than a capital ship, but why do that and risk losing one?..... wot i don't get is the difficulty i think ccp should rethink this as anyone in battlecruiser's or less would be futile to enter wormhole space.. wot would be really helpful is a fitting and loadout guide effective against sleepers.... as both pvp and pve setups don't work...

i have two basic rules for soloing wormholes one never use a BS two unless it is the only site in the system dont go to the one that can warp scramble i have some notes as to class 3 ships i need class 2 though class 1s never use scramblers and i dont do 4+s

[Karmadog]

So far our small corp has had a fair amount of luck in W-space and the sleepers are not that hard so far but we are in a mid level system.The problem that has presented it's self for us is players that come into system and jump our miners "just to get a kill" or bounce our ships while trying to clear sleeper sites.One move I would love to see CCP make is more parity between PvE set ups and PvP set ups.Rite now the pirates have all the high ground so to speak and our lootz is theirs when they show up .   

[SghnDubh]

So far our small corp has had a fair amount of luck in W-space and the sleepers are not that hard so far but we are in a mid level system.The problem that has presented it's self for us is players that come into system and jump our miners "just to get a kill" or bounce our ships while trying to clear sleeper sites.One move I would love to see CCP make is more parity between PvE set ups and PvP set ups.Rite now the pirates have all the high ground so to speak and our lootz is theirs when they show up .

This is not a developer problem. This is purposefully set up to encourage players to work together.

Your easiest solution is to pay for mercs to defend you, or recruit PVPers as security.

[Leonard Cage]

Really good guide. Nice work

[lgonggr]

Nice guide, especially with the graphics.
I don't see the point of just using 4 probes. I generally use 5-6 saves me at least 2 scan cycles per scanning session.
Sleepers do rainbow damage and their explosive damage is a problem for a poor Armour tanker like me. Almost lost my ubertanked rigged Myrmidon.
I'd advise on using shieldtanked Drakes.

[joeick]

I've always fitted a PvP setup with a single armor repper, and it works great.

[SghnDubh]

Nice guide, especially with the graphics.
I don't see the point of just using 4 probes. I generally use 5-6 saves me at least 2 scan cycles per scanning session.

Is your formation four on the plane, then one below and one above in the middle of the four?

[Litherdhennael]

Thank you, nice sir. Really want to find a 'hole and xplor it.

[Aren Valle]

Well written guide, but it still baffles me that everyone seems to have a hard-on for the sloppy 1 probe, 2 probe, etc method of finding sites. You need 4 probes for a lock, use 4 probes from the start. Not a difficult concept. Arrange the probes cardinally and you have a tight scanning window to maximize your results rather than slopping probes down when needed.

[JackNorris]

This isn't a guide to wormhole, it's a guide on how to find them.

[surge999]

u havent tried a drake yet can solo class 1 and 2 in a drake class threes u need minamom of 3 drake to spreed the agro class 4 u can do in battle ships w/ a good tank

[Karmadog]

So has anyone come up with a clear order of engagement that the sleepers use? I understand that they go for the weakest tank first but I don't understand how this is measured.Do they go buy total effective hit points , resists ?I can sig tank sites in my logistics ships that will eat my battle ship but they still target the logistics first, even thou they cant do any real damage . They will target heavily tanked BC over what looks on paper to be poorly tanked BS's (thou they will eat a poorly tanked BC real quick also).I see at work in daily practice but was just curious as to weather or not somebody had found the set in stone rules. 

[merys]

You can solo class 1 and 2 WH in a mission fit BC, Sleepers do damage to all types, Add a rig to what your ship is deficient in. IE:  (Drake EM) Then protect to all types. Widowmakes seem to do well, But you bring several different types. Don't forget the probes. Drones will be killed. If you are flying with company, use maintenance drones. Otherwise drones are worthless.

[St0n3rPhReaK]

Set in stoner rules seem to be the sleepers test each ships tank for a certain amount of time,Though there has been instances of a "primary" type of damage they tend to test all tanks.c1-c2 drakes passive setup breezes thorugh sites,C3 and high will need a more dedicated bunch to make things move along swiftly.Remote repping is key to the higher lvl wh's.Ive lived in wh's for a bit of time 1-2 months per spell a few times as well.With ice being the only thing wh's lack they are a pretty good asset to corps and capsuleers in need of isk and raw minerals for construction.Not to mention a good place for people to go when war goes live and minerals/isk are needed to keep the war machina turning.Also wh's are a nice introduction to the harsh world of pvp which can be controlled in some ways pvp in 0.0 can not.Just as a side note skill plays a big part in wh's as sleepers tend to test even the most seasoned of players skillsets.One more thing to make wh'ing easier is WHThingie a tool used to tell class of wormholes and types of anomolies as well as how much mass is able to be passed through before collapse.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0903/WHThingie_0.50.zip

[Trinkets friend]

That widget rocks.

Some further notes:

> Sleeper turrets (Argos, Sirius) do NOT switch aggro.

> Some sleeper BS's (Upholders?) have really crap tracking speed. You can get in under their guns and orbit at 1200m.

> Sleeper BS's can web from >50km.

> Sleepers (usually cruisers) remote-rep each other - focusing fire is often necessary.

> Target painters are necessary to light up the sleeper frigates and cruisers to max out your DPS with missiles.

> Sleepers in C3 systems attack your drones less. In C1-C2 systems, drones suffer.

> Learn the trigger ships in sleeper sites, so you can manage the aggro.

Karmadog, in my experience the sleepers tend to target in this (very rough) order: the biggest ship (eg, BS in a BC gang), ships with active gang links (Command ships), ships with RR (logis), ECM ships (Scorpions), ships with a bigger sig radius than others (Drakes with LSE's vs drakes without), ships with armour reppers. ie;

If you take a BS in with drake, the BS cops it most (naturally).

If you take a bunch of identically fit drakes, its pretty random. But if one has more LSE's/rigs than others, it cops it most.

If you take a bunch of drakes with a Nighthawk, the nighthawk cops it proportionally more. If it turns on the gang link, it cops it more.

If you take a bunch of drakes with a harby, the harby tends to cop it a fair amount.

Etc.

[AlthosSilverwing]

What is missing the most other than a guide to dealing with sleepers is wormhole data information, what the wormhole code ie name equals to for maximum size of ship or ships to be able to pop through it without collapsing the wormhole behind you

[SghnDubh]

^^ interesting - we'll have a chat about this idea.

[Bubba Mike]

Wormholes are the best

[Mournful Conciousness]

I saw the comment about drones in wormholes and thought I'd set the record straight.
I have lived in 4 wormholes (simultaneously) from a cat 1 to a cat 5 and here's the score:2

Cat 1: you can do these sleepers in anything that can tank 200dps and has some spare cap. I have soloed one in a gallente assault ship (before incursion, so beware of the new sleeper NOSsing powers).

Cat 2: ditto

Cat 3: 2 drakes do these easily, without remote rep. If your missile skills suck (like mine) then one of you may need to warp out and back once to recharge shields. I also did these in domi + maelstrom, each with local tank + a remote repper. Note that almost all a domi's dps is from drones. Doing these in an ECM scorpion + anything else is a complete walk in the park. Our record is 6 minutes 30 seconds, using a dominix + a chimera (built in the wormhole). Doing it this way, you don't have to tank the dominix at all - just fit for DPS and drone tracking/damage use the capital rr on it.

Cat 5: 5 battleships with 1 rr each is just about enough. It really helps if you're armour tanked and one of the ships is an armour buffer scorpion with 7 racial ECMs. That cuts down incoming DPS a lot. 6 battleships + the usual capital ships are enough to do all the escalations and get your 900 million isk.

Drones:
combat/sentry drones tend to be safe if there are 10 or more drones in the air. Now and again the sleepers target them, but the more of you there are, the less they do it. ECMing the frigates tends to improve drone safety by a large margin.

If anyone wants any more advice, or to talk to a dynamic wormhole corp, mail me in game.

fly safe
Mournful Conciousness
Special Situations

[Xxodus]

was looking for a wormhole guide not a scaning guide i know how to scan with probes. if your gona make a guide please name it what its 90% about. 15 pages about scanning and 1/2 a page about a door and sleepers isnt a WH guide its a scanning guide. and theres a vid in youtube thats 100 times better to learn scanning from and dosnt take and hour of reading to understand what to do.

* SghnDubh says (ninja edit) thanks for the feedback.

[SlimChance]

Ok, this actually is some really good stuff guys.