Author Topic: Why does everyone hate Bellicose?  (Read 9501 times)

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Shaggyd

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Why does everyone hate Bellicose?
« on: August 04, 2008, 03:18:30 am »
This weekend, I was able to purchase my very first cruiser. I was advised to get a Stabber because, as everyone online put it, the Bellicose is crap. I asked why it is crap and underused, but no-one gave any sensible reply.
So I followed their advice, bought a Stabber and after fitting it with basic 220 Vulcans, lost the damn thing after 24hrs at a 0.4sec complex.
Luckily I had the ship 100% insured, so now I'm considering a Bellicose and tackle the complex from long range.
What do you all think? Stick with another Stabber? Get a Bellicose? Or cross-train and buy a different race cruiser?

Gabba

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Re: Why does everyone hate Bellicose?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2008, 03:27:24 am »
Keep training and get a rupture, far better for your needs.

Stabber is a fast PVP cruiser

Sky Grunthor

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Re: Why does everyone hate Bellicose?
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2008, 03:36:38 am »
the bellicose is the ewar platform ship.  As its ewar consists of target painters for bonus it is often seen as worthless.  It also souffers from a split weapon system requireing more training.  These are the simple reasons why people don't like them.

The Rupture and Stabber are far better ships for straight up combat and pve but the bellicose is not bad in itself.. its just not as good by comparison.

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Re: Why does everyone hate Bellicose?
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2008, 03:52:31 am »
if you have ever tried to fit a belicose with any sort of weaponry youll find it very hard to do. my fitting skills are extremely high and even i have trouble getting some half decent weapons and fittings.

this is definately not a ship worth it in the case of doing damage. nor is it a ship worthy of taking damage. ewar is about the only way you can get anything half decent out of it and even then its probably better as a fleet ship designed to increase interceptors and other small ships size so that the bigger ships can actually hit them.

i considered buying one at the massive price tag of 3 mil recently and after i couldnt come up with a fitting i decided not to.

as sky said: go for the rupture

(well im putting words in the mouth of sky now arent i)

i fly a rupture sometimes and i have to say its very good. fit it out with 650mm guns and youll find the fitting quite easy.
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Shaggyd

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Re: Why does everyone hate Bellicose?
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2008, 07:55:57 am »
Well, I've finally kitted out my Bellicose with 2xmissile launchers, 1xheavy missile launcher , 2x 650mm artillery  and a 225mm vulcan. Yep, I know, mixed guns = bad news, but it is all I can salvage from loot at the moment.
I have also fitted a target painter (higher missile damage I believe), shield booster I and an afterburner to keep a distance from smaller rats. Finally, Overdrive II, inertial stab and ballistic control to give the cruiser some edge in maintaining distance from foes. Oh and a target tracking disruptor with range script to reduce their lockon range.
Again all gear robbed from my rat loot.
So if it fails, at least I gave the Bellicose a try and get my insurance back aswell.
First flight tonight after work (if I finish early).

Protovarious

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Re: Why does everyone hate Bellicose?
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2008, 03:05:35 pm »
The Belicose does not a mission runner make, imho.  It's best suited for PvP gangs.  My advice would have been to get a Rupture.

However:

Properly trained, a Belicose can be a very valuable asset in gangs.  With 2 target painters, ECMs, heavy missles, and EWAR drones, it can be very effective in the right hands.


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Re: Why does everyone hate Bellicose?
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2008, 04:03:58 pm »
Target painter bonused ships will be much more useful when the speed nerf eventually comes in.

As everything will be slower sig rad becomes a lot more important.

But apart from the Ewar side, the Bellicose sucks, save up and get a Ruppy. Its like taking an Exequror out to do missions, its useless, the Thorax or Vexor are just so much more efficient. Same with the Bellicose, the Stabber and Ruppy are just so much more efficient as they are actually optimised for combat.

For lower skills, I would suggest the Ruppy as its easier to just fit an armour tank to it for extra survivability. The Stabber is best used speed fit as a training vessel for Vagabonds, though it is a fine heavy tackler in its own right in the hands of a skilled pilot.
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Shaggyd

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Re: Why does everyone hate Bellicose?
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2008, 08:26:43 am »
Well, I flew the Bellicose to a bookmarked 0.4sec and warped 50Km from an asteroid belt. Spotted two Angel Predators and picked them off from 40Km with my 3xmissile launchers and 2x650mm artillery.
Warped to another belt, same tactic on another 4 ships. This time a human/chicken battleship (Drake) pirate sneaked in and assaulted me from the rear whilst I was still engaging the npc. He warp blocked me from 25km away, spanked me before he lost his shields and demanded 5mil for saving my capsule.
After denying the payment of ransom, he laughed and shot the capsule. Only after I sent a reply saying "Go ahead the ship is crap and insured 100% and so is my clone!". So I guess I had the last laugh since the last comment from the pirate was Anglo-Saxon for 'go forth and multiply elsewhere!'.
Incidently, he did me a favour as I was back in Empire space where most of my insurance was spent accumulating skills and Blue Prints at discount prices. - Cheers mate!!
 
So, for a while I will stick with my nifter Rifter back in 0.6sec and continue doing missions to build up some ISK and medium hardware spares for a Rupture. Next time I'll stick a warp stab on a cruiser and see if it lasts 24hrs...

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Re: Why does everyone hate Bellicose?
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2008, 09:42:33 am »
Maybe not exacly in the Belicose theme, but problem with missions could be from wrong tactiks, not from wrong ship (that is another problem - get a Rupture as other said)
As for tactic, stay aligned at escape object (like station, gate ...or so) all time in harder plexes. You shoul strike enemies from distance, starting with enemy scramblers and then highest dmg dealers with little tank. When U start to get to much dmg, U can warp off in second. Dont try to get loot during fight, U can do it after.
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Shaggyd

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Re: Why does everyone hate Bellicose?
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2008, 06:41:58 am »
Thanks for the tips Jarowit, also I should try to install a warp stab to avoid being warp blocked.
The good news is that I have now got Salvaging skill, so I can earn more money by salvaging the wrecks of the npc rats. Who knows, I might buy another Bellicose and try a different tactic. But at the moment, I'm back to flying Thrasher destroyers and using the extra slots for hitting npc and salvaging from a distance.

MrGoat

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Re: Why does everyone hate Bellicose?
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2008, 04:09:28 am »
Warp stabs are proboly a bad idea. They increase targeting time which means less outbound dps and more time that the rats etc are shooting you. What you really need to do in low sec is ALWAYS be paying attention to whats going on around you. Be alligned and ready to please consider another option, thanks! when trouble shows up, and trouble most certianly WILL show up. You can most certianly warp out well before a bc can target lock you, its just a mater of seeing him warp in and getting out rather than dilly dallying around and letting him lock/scram you.

I think for the moment you are best off sticking with frigs/destros untill you get your base skills up a tad higher.  Then when you do jump over to cruisers do it right and grab a good combat cruiser and fit it properly. You will notice a dramatic improvement in performace.

TrainWreck20

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Re: Why does everyone hate Bellicose?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2008, 08:27:57 am »
Although I am not sure exactly what experience level you are, we are probably pretty close.  I am mainly an industrialist, but in my spare time go ratting in 0.5 in a Destroyer, with a couple of turrets fitted with salvagers.  If there are a lot of belts (or especially an ice belt) you can make decent isk (at least for a non-combat pilot  :) ).

I also venture into 0.4 space in a Stabber fitted with a WCS to help keep the human pirates off me.  Even with only passable combat skills, I can usually take out the rats, even with the WCS interference.  I have gone the opposite way and speed-fitted my Stabber and armed it with hvy assault missiles and small guns (since most of the rats in 0.4 are still frigates).  I keep my Destroyer handy for salvaging.  To salvage quicker (if there is anyone else in the system, usually) I switch to many salvagers and a small tractor (and occasionally an extra WCS since I am not planning to fight).

Anyway, there is nothing more fun than using a WCS to thwart a pirate, just 'cause it pisses em off so  ;D.

Simen123

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Re: Why does everyone hate Bellicose?
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2008, 08:54:32 am »
wcs=bad idea on any ship beside a industrial ship. nerfs ur lock-on range and time and ruins a slot where u could've put more dps or tank on your ship. also drake is a bc and no ship solo can break a drake's passive tank(not counting some gankships) so dont feel to bad if u lose a bellicose to one, also might wanna consider mwd on ships u take into lowsec
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TrainWreck20

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Re: Why does everyone hate Bellicose?
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2008, 09:51:11 am »
Quote
wcs=bad idea on any ship beside a industrial ship.
I am pretty new, so time may prove me wrong, but at my current skill level I can rat in 0.4 and make decent money/salvage, but there is no way I can stand up to the pirates that are out there.

Two options basic:
- Try to get out asap when a pirate shows up  (before they lock you).
- Put in a WCS and get out (before or after they lock you).

Since the WCS does not prevent me from killing 0.4 rats, there is no drawback for what I am doing.  Yes, it takes me longer to kill the rats, but they are just as dead.  As far as escaping before lock-on, some of those pirates lock on super fast.

Of course, there are some even more basic options:
- Stay out of 0.4 until I am more skilled.
- Get podded a lot.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 09:53:48 am by TrainWreck20 »

Simen123

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Re: Why does everyone hate Bellicose?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2008, 04:42:42 pm »
well try this: when a neutral shows up in local, go to a ss or just get the hell out of the system ;)
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TrainWreck20

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Re: Why does everyone hate Bellicose?
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2008, 07:45:17 pm »
Quote
well try this: when a neutral shows up in local, go to a ss or just get the hell out of the system
Heh, I do watch local, and check security status, corp membership, and bios to kinda judge the risk.  Most of the time there is either no one, or just one or two other people in the system.  I hate to just leave in the middle of combat against soon-to-be-dead rats, though, so I usually don't drop everything and flee unless it looks like serious trouble.

Simen123

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Re: Why does everyone hate Bellicose?
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2008, 08:42:00 pm »
well stay aligned at all times
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Nabiah

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Re: Why does everyone hate Bellicose?
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2010, 06:03:12 am »
By now you might have moved on to Rupture or Battle cruiser.
But in defense of the Belicose i have to say that once you reach 4/5 average skills you can be an asset in eny gang by lightning the primary with a T2 painter increasign the damage of all other ships in gang.

did you know target painter allows for better drone efficiency as well as guns and missiles?

did you know the Belicose has bogger drone bay than Rupture alowing for 3xvalkyre + 2xWarrior ?

Belicose is also a fast cruiser able to reach almost 2000 m/s with T1 MWD and overdrive.

Also, for those minmatar Pilots who do Not want to train both Shield and Armor skills, Belicose is a good option for cruisers.

The thing is, when you have little skill points you will not be abble to fit it properly and in this case you will be better off in a rupture or Stabber

RedRevelation

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Re: Why does everyone hate Bellicose?
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2010, 03:14:38 pm »
Holy mother of necros O_O :buck2: