Author Topic: Freighter Escort Guide  (Read 13054 times)

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regretfully_gentle

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Freighter Escort Guide
« on: May 08, 2008, 12:39:56 am »
This guide will outline how new and experienced members of a gang / corp can support high value trade runs and help prevent the loss of Freighters and their cargo in High (less so) and low (more so) sec space.

The Facts

  • Freighters turn like modern day oil tankers (very slowly)
  • They Accelerate and decelerate like Trans-American Freight Trains (very slowly)
  • Freighters have no electronic defences
  • Freighters carry a LOT of cargo - thus a lot of collateral
  • Freighters are vulnerable to mass suicides in high sec and pirates in low sec

Freighters require a large gang escort to ensure their safety... period.

But what if you don't have / can't get a large gang and still want to trade?

You have to take a risk and run the routes undefended and probably lose a lot of ISK because of it.

Isn't there an alternative for me? - Because I still want to trade in my new Obelisk

Not really but here are some tactics that may help you.

Disclaimer:

The author of this guide desn't know what he is on about and therefore accepts no responsibility for losses incurred from following this guide.

The Concept

To provide a cheap / not so cheap frig setup the minimise the risk associated to doing trade runs in Freighters and to do this by utilising a specific loadout and precise tactics to both speed up the trade run and avoid the Freighter being trapped and killed.

The Tactics

Inta-Warping:

This is the phrase used to describe the inducing of a Freighter to enter warp instantly.

Ships in Eve achieve warp by reaching 90% of their forward velocity.  This can be a very short amount of time for ships such as interceptors, or a VERY long time for whips as sluggish as Freighters.  This means that Freighters take a long time to perform each warp, costing ISK and also make themselves VERY vulnerable to attack after de-cloaking.

But by fitting an escort with a web you can make the Freighter warp backwards!!!  :screwloose:
And this is how...

The Escort jumps through the jump gate and scouts out the other side.  When it gives the all clear the Freighter jumps through and appears cloaked at the other side.  The Escort then de-cloaks followed by the freighter who tries to instantly warp to the next Jump Gate... however it is facing the wrong way and is turning so slowly!!!  Suddenly you see 3 Stealth Bombers start to de-cloak 80km away and you know they will be targeting the Freighter straight away...  The Escort however is already targeting the freighter and as soon as he gets a lock he activates his web on the Freighter.

Because the Freighter is such a slow ship... and because he is moving, even though its still very slow (10m/s or so)... as soon as the Web hits it it is already traveling at 90% of its new top speed... thus the insta-warp is induced and it shoots off to the new gate before the Stealth Bombers can target it!

... in an ideal world...

But what if your escort is too far away... or what if it takes ages to target the freighter when the Stealth Bombers take a matter of seconds...?

Well you need a setup that will enable FAST targeting and long distance webbing AND/OR is fast to close the gap to web distance.

Web Escort Setups

Here are 3 setups that fit that bill and I will explain how to use them for this tactic:

1.  Condor (Cheap fast frig setup with a cloak - minimal spend)


Condor Web Escort Setup

2. Kitsune (More expensive and versatile Web Escort)

Kitsune Web Escort Setup

3. Cruor (Great for long range webbing)

Cruor Long Range Web Escort

As you can see the condor is all about the following abilities:

  • Using its cloak to warp through the jump gates as a scout to check for campers / pirates. ~(NOTE: The fitted cloak adds a hefty penalty on targeting after de-cloaking so it is important to only use your cloak if there ARE ships camping the gate exit, otherwise use the 15 seconds jump cloak to scout and then send the Freighter through)
  • Once it gets the all clear being able to de-cloak (after the jump) and target the Freighter faster than anyone else can
  • Engage the webber on the Freighter before anyone can scram it
  • Warp out to the next gate to overtake the Freighter and provide early warning before it arrives at the next gate
  • If the Freighter de-cloakes 30km away, demonstrate the ability to quickly close this distance and engage the web - an Executioner or Vigil are much better alternatives for this speed as the condor is slower even with the MWD fitted


Those really are the tactics.

The Kitsune adds more abilities...

It has the following inherrent abilities:

Caldari Frigate Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to ECM target jammer strength and 10% reduction in ECM target jammers' capacitor need per level

Electronic Attack Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to ECM target jammer optimal range and 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level

This means that the escort can cater for situations where the Freighter is targeted and scrammed.  The Kitsune can then target the tacklers and the Freighter... it can break the locks on the Freighter and instantly engage its webber when this is achieved.  This is why I recommend at least 2 escorts, preferably Kitsunes, on trade runs, so they can break multiple tacklers.

Should the escort begin to run out of cap from the cloak and ECM, MWD and Webbers, it can activate the NOS and gain cap from targeting the Freighters as they have abundant amounts of cap spare.

The Cruor allows for instant warping from wherever it de-cloaks relative to the Freighter as it has the following bonuses:

Amarr Frigate Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer drain amount per level
Minmatar Frigate Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Stasis Webifier activation range per level

The Cruor is capable of activating the webber at 15km instead of the standard 10km so the MWD is still a requirement.

These are good alternative ships for this purpose as they have longer web ranges:

Hyena: Max range 20km
Rapier: Max range 40km

It will also gain much more cap from using its NOS on the Freighters / Enemy.

So if you are a newb member of a corp who has a trader, and you are feeling pretty useless and a drain on the corp resources... want to give something back???

Train up some basic skills and purchase one of the above escort setups... practice the tactics in safe space with your corp mates until you have perfected the different scenarios and then provide web escort services in return for corp protection and help!

Practice makes perfect

Use a safe high sec system and an empty Freighter and have campers try to target the freighter after it jumps into the system whilst the escorter tries to target and insta-warp the Freighter.  Have some corp members sit at the destination gate and try to kill it there... the Escort must then overtake the Freighter in warp and try to forewarn the Freighter Pilot to jump straight through the jump gate if necessary... then repeat the same to prove you can do this over several jumps with constant engagements.

WHEN you get it right, it is possible to travel through hostile space freely with a single escort... as long as you remain focused and do EVERYTHING right... the pirates will not be setup to target faster than your Web Escort thus you can break away.  They will nearly ALWAYS target the Freighter first which gives you the time to nip out with your super fast warp capability before they turn on you.

If you (Web Escorter) do however get targeted... then you are truely £$*$ed so take some  :photo: of the Freighter going down for your corp killboard... as you wont be popular!!!

I hope this helps all you new corp members and old corp members alike.  Its a simple tactic that is not used precicely enough and will therefore work well if perfected.

Ultimately this tactic works the best when you have a medium to large gang consisting of several DPS dealers to engage any agressors whilst you tackle and insta-warp.

Good luck! Happy Trading!!!
« Last Edit: May 08, 2008, 02:10:15 am by HellSpreader »

zjoekov

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Re: Freighter Escort Guide
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2008, 01:01:02 am »
i believe filling your hold with cans means the suicide gankers can't see your true cargo aswell, but i might be wrong about it.

and also you forgot to mention the hyena wich get a web bonus aswell

regretfully_gentle

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Re: Freighter Escort Guide
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2008, 01:03:33 am »
Yep, but this tactic guide whould prevent them from even getting to scan the cargo.

Also I focused on 3 different classes of ships to show the range in concept.

People should be able to apply the same principals to other ships...

Plus I think that the Mods were about to ban me for making so many Freighter Escort setups  :knuppel2:

zjoekov

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Re: Freighter Escort Guide
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2008, 01:14:53 am »
yea after DT ill try if it works for my transport ship as their alignment is a century not as long as the millenium like a freighter but still

regretfully_gentle

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Re: Freighter Escort Guide
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2008, 01:18:31 am »
Cool, let me know if it does and I will make changes to this, or write a sub-guide if the tactics need fine-tuning.

It does take a lot of practice to get this right... its all about timing and working as a tightly knit group so you already know what the other person is doing before they do it... saves on constant typing to co-ordinate processes... which leads to mistakes.

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Re: Freighter Escort Guide
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2008, 01:19:02 am »
You have a few problems with your guide, and i think it comes from your lack of understanding of the game.

The first mistake.
You picked, Condor, Kitsune and Curor as webbing ships.
You should have picked, Hyena, Rapier and Huggin. All of those ships can web at long range, thus making travel time somewhat irrelevant.

Quote
# Once it gets the all clear being able to de-cloak and target the Freighter faster than anyone else can
# Engage the webber on the Freighter before anyone can scram it
Here is your next fail.

Not only will an interceptor out-lock you normally, most cruisers will out-lock you when you have a cloak fitted.


Quote
If the Freighter de-cloakes 30km away, demonstrate the ability to quickly close this distance and engage the web
The condor is one of the slowest frigates in the game.
You would be much quicker using either an executioner or a vigil.


Quote
The Cruor allows for instant warping from wherever it de-cloaks relative to the Freighter as it has the following bonuses:
This is again, totally untrue.
Cruor: Max range 15km
Hyena: Max range 20km
Rapier: Max range 40km
And there are gates that could put you further than even the rapier can web.

Quote
the pirates will not be setup to target faster than your Web Escort thus you can break
Wrong!
With a cloak fitted, they will always get first lock.

Quote
i believe filling your hold with cans means the suicide gankers can't see your true cargo aswell, but i might be wrong about it.
This is a myth.
Cargo scanners don't care if your cargo is in containers, or even in plastic-wraps for courier missions.
They just show a list of whats in the ship, regardless of its sub-container.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2008, 01:20:46 am by MrCue »
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Re: Freighter Escort Guide
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2008, 01:21:08 am »
i believe he means the cloak you get after jumping

MrCue

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Re: Freighter Escort Guide
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2008, 01:25:48 am »
i have no idea of the cause, but i have fixed it - MrCue 2008

I am neither a Pessimist nor an Optimist, Just a Realist.


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Re: Freighter Escort Guide
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2008, 01:39:29 am »
hehe i didn't click the linky's :D

regretfully_gentle

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Re: Freighter Escort Guide
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2008, 01:51:13 am »
No the cloak fitted to the ship is incase there are gate campers and you may need to stick around a little longer.

When I talk about de-cloaking with the Freighter I mean after the jump in...

Some very valid points there... the only reason I have those setups is because of the skills that my corp mate has enables him to fly the condor at present... then move on up to the others...

Plus I am not allowed to make any further setups so I had to make do.

The cloak is on the setups because I think any ship that has no weapons and is in low sec needs to have a cloak.

The MWD on the setups would make the frigs fast enough to get to webbing range before a SB (which would be the only ship you would miss during scouting) could do any deadly damage to the Freighter.  Also as they sit quite far from the gates in general to fire their missiles they would not be able to scram instantly....

Thanks for the comments though, I will have a think anout them so as not to rush additinos / amendments to the guide and then make appropriate changes.

Thanks guys!

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Re: Freighter Escort Guide
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2008, 02:05:02 am »
When I talk about de-cloaking with the Freighter I mean after the jump in...
Just fitting it causes you to lose 50% scan res.
If you turn it on, you will ALSO suffer from a delay when you decloak too, on top of the 50% scan res penalty.

Quote
The MWD on the setups would make the frigs fast enough to get to webbing range before a SB (which would be the only ship you would miss during scouting) could do any deadly damage to the Freighter.  Also as they sit quite far from the gates in general to fire their missiles they would not be able to scram instantly....
I think your wrong on this one too.
Anyone who knows of my previous alliance, will tell you that even when the gate looks clear, it often isn't.

Your freighter & scout would be spotted several systems out.
A tackler would be moved one system back, and a damage dealer placed on the far gate, incase you manage to slip through the camp, you will be forced to jump into the waiting tackler.

Then the camp would remain cloaked, until the freighter was on the gate, your scout has called all clear.
Our scout says, freighter jumped.
Our camp decloaks, to wear off the delay.

You dont know where you freighter is going to come out.
And with our claymore, our interceptors (for example, stilleto with 2x sensor boosters+ scram & mwd)
Has a 37km scramble range, which is > than your condors web range.

Or an arazu, with no lock-delay (cov-ops cloak), and 60km scramble range.
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Re: Freighter Escort Guide
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2008, 02:25:30 am »
Well by checking local as a matter of course the escort would be aware of other ships in the low sec system.

If this is the case the Freighter can log off or dock at a station until the gang scout (Pilgim or such) declares the area as clear.  As a matter of course you know where your nearest station is.  Also, such is the benefit of having 2 web escorts.  One can stay on one side of the gate whilst the other or the recon / cov opps craft checks the other side.

I should add to the guide that this tactic still requires a cov opps / recon class in their gang.

I have removed the cloaks from the Web Escorts as they become defunct with the cloaked scout.

Targeting times are up.  By using the buzzard setup in loadouts forum that I posted there is no delay on the targeting after de-cloaking so this could hold a dual function.

The Kitsune could jam one and (unlikely) 2 of your tacklers to enable the Freighter to insta-warp.

When it gets to the other gate, one or both of the escorts should already be there and would forewarn the Freighter of the DPS there and instruct it to jump instantly.  Then its business as usual for the insta-warpers.

Its, as far as I can see, the only and best alternative to having a huge gang escorting a Freighter through low sec. 

As I state in my opening remarks on the guide... there is no substitute for a well organised and large escort gang... but if you have to do it... this is the next best thing...

Any thoughts?

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Re: Freighter Escort Guide
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2008, 02:34:08 am »
When it gets to the other gate, one or both of the escorts should already be there and would forewarn the Freighter of the DPS there and instruct it to jump instantly.
I did say, there would also be a tackler on the other side.
I can get an arazu, 60km scramble range, 119 points of sensor strength.
Good luck jamming that with a kitsune.

Quote
Its, as far as I can see, the only and best alternative to having a huge gang escorting a Freighter through low sec. 
If you move a freighter, its escort should cost equal to, or more than the freighter itself.
Not putting a full show of force out, just doesn't make sense.

Im looking for some videos of us in operation.
Im also looking to see if i can find The arrow project losing 6? freighters and 2 carriers, that was with a FULL gang, carrier support, and scouts.

Here are the mails
http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=MrCue&id=1293472&page=2&filter=losses#relatedMails
« Last Edit: May 08, 2008, 02:37:56 am by MrCue »
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Re: Freighter Escort Guide
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2008, 02:59:56 am »
Hmm..

This tactic isn't aimed at 0.0 sec... its aimed at low sec so Amarr to 0.4 / 0.3 at lowest runs...

I would have thought your camps and other camps of this scale would have been purely in 0.0 space?

If not then I have not fallen into a camp of that type in low sec space thus far and pray I dont.

However if someone with your experience thinks low sec has this level of camping too then I will downgrade my guide to high sec escorting... to avoid scanners and mass suicider teams...

Thoughts?

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Re: Freighter Escort Guide
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2008, 03:16:48 am »
Doesnt matter, you dont move freighters through either low sec or 0.0 without a proper escort. That means BS and support as well as your web ship.

A single web ship is only really of any use in Empire to make the job faster.

As for low sec camps... I have seen some pretty big ones, with caps and supercaps off the gate as well as BS and heavy support. Low Sec is actually more dangerous than well patrolled and secured 0.0.
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Re: Freighter Escort Guide
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2008, 05:02:54 am »
I would have thought your camps and other camps of this scale would have been purely in 0.0 space?
Let me share an image with you then.
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