Author Topic: Amarr vs Gallente ships  (Read 21310 times)

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mom04girls

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Amarr vs Gallente ships
« on: October 27, 2007, 04:35:11 pm »
     I'm new to the game and didn't really know how to choose what to shoot for endgame. After watching the tourney videos i liked how the amar ships looked with beam weapons. I've always been a big fan of star trek :) but I've learned from other mmorpgs that a way to pick a class is to look in the forums and see who complains about being over-powered or who is under-powered. 
     
     I've looked at caldari ships first since I had picked caldari as an initial character. Missiles seem boring to me so I don't want to go in that direction. Gallente seems my style of in-your-face with scramblers, webs, MWD. Amar seem to do the same if you wanted to. The difference i see is people  complaining about amarr and cap usage to the point of if amarr is even a viable choice. When you look at amarr ship builds compared to a magathron builds there are a lot more for the mag and no real complaining while amarr posts almost all are complaining in one way or another.

    I've also noticed that the big pvp corps are training gallente ships with a few commenting about the huge problems they had with amarr ships.

     I don't want to spend a huge amount of time training for a gimped class. If I trained for Amarr and trained the skills to the right lvl how viable would i be then. I mean if an equally trained person in an abadon for example fights a magathron pilot both fitted for close range the abadon could have cap probs while the maga may not hold its tank or something along those lines.
   
     So in the end I'm always complexed on what I should do go for the cool factor and take a chance of being a gimped amarr or listen to what has worked for me in the past (reading forums and choosing who ppl complain about being over-powered and who complains the most about their class being gimped) coupled with what ppl say isn't as in good pvp/pve.
     
     What i need the help with is where is my logic flawed and is what I'm reading in the forums wrong because there is always the chance that what I've read isn't what is excepted as being fact but in reality just a bunch of noobs or complainers.

Any suggestions would be helpful ... THanks P.S my eventual goal would be a ship that i could use for missions to some degree while being powerful and needed in pvp as a dmg person preferable closer ranged combat.



MrCue

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Re: Amarr vs Gallente ships
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2007, 04:48:35 pm »
Its all down to play style i guess.

I personally fly Gallente BS, Caldari Command ships and Minmatar interdictors.

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josh_1143

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Re: Amarr vs Gallente ships
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2007, 05:29:26 pm »
caldari good for pve (damage types aswell as lack of optimal range), gellente good damage and drones, armarr cap and tank, minitar speed and damage

think thats what it falls down to imo

svzurich

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Re: Amarr vs Gallente ships
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2007, 07:18:33 pm »
All depends on what you like to fly, each ship has different strengths and styles. 

Amarr ships in general require you to level up the ship class skill to reduce cap usage, but work really well once your skills are up.  Amarr ships require patience but can be fun to fly.  They DO have some issues at low skill levels, but it is balanced out by unlimited T1 ammo (longest range on short range weapons, excel in midrange combat, but most PVP is at short range), better passive armor resists, and more low slots for armor tanking.  Recently some Amarr ships became short range, high DPS missile users (rockets and heavy assault missiles) so there is variety if lasers aren't your thing.  Lasers only do EM and Thermal damage, the rockets/HAMs can switch out ammo to do any damage type.  I am currently mulling over whether to train up the short range missiles for the Sacrilege, push on to Absolution and Damnation for command skills and gank, or just move up to battleship for Abaddon.

Minmater are the other race that requires a large amount of skill points to excell in, but are fast jack of all trades.  None of their weapon systems (autocannons, missiles, drones, and artillery) use capaciter energy.  All of their weapon systems can switch out ammo to target any resistance holes in a foe's defenses.  Most of their ships are geared for hit and run sweeps and the weapons are good for alpha strikes.  If you like speed tanking, this is the race for you.  I fly their CovertOps and am thinking of flying their Interceptors and Interdictor someday.

Gallente tend to excell at "in your face" blasting, are the other armor tanking race, and decent with EW.  They rely on hybrid guns (Thermal/Kinetic) and drones (any damage type), have a good mix of ships, and most classes of ships have bonuses for the guns and one ship that is the drone carrier.  My character is Gallente and loves flying her Dominix drone carrier.  I am not a fan of using up ammo, so I tend to alternate between drone and laser ships.  Drones when I want a more "hands off" approach, lasers when I want to be owning my foes directly.  Currently many posters think Gallente is THE PVP RACE, but the same can be said for Minmater.  All ships can do well in PVP.

Caldari are the shield tanking, EW mastering, missile race.  If you are in a gang, it's always nice to have a Caldari ship in the mix using EW goodness.  Missiles are great for missions, but don't work very well against the fastest ships.  Hybrids tend to have more DPS than missiles, but missiles require 0 cap and are not affected by turret disrupters.  Caldari are considered "Eve in easy mode" but are not considered to be very good in PVP by many.  They excel in long range weaponry and have the Rohk, the ultimate sniping hybrid gun battleship.  :D  The Rohk and Cormorant destroyer get sweet optimal range bonuses to their hybrid guns, so if you like guns do not discount them. 

To sum it up, Amarr excel in midrange combat, armor tanking, and now have nice short range/high DPS missile systems, but require quite a few skills to get good with lasers (missiles take less time to get good results).  Minmater are hit and run types who can devote their cap to defense and propulsion, can pick their damage types, and also require a lot of skills to get good at all the weapon options available to them.  Gallente tend to be short range combat masters, armor tank, have decent EW potential, and rely on hybrids and drones.  Caldari tend to be long range shield tankers, masters of EW (at the expense of their shield tanking), use missiles and hybrids, and own PVE.

I fly Amarr and Gallente, but minor in the other races' systems as well.

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Re: Amarr vs Gallente ships
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2007, 05:45:52 am »
well i'll take what Cue, josh nd svurich said and put it in simpler terms. Amarr and Minmatar take alot of skills to be good but when they are good they kick ass.

Gallentte nd Amarr are armor tankers, Caldari are shield tankers and Minmatar pretty much tank in everything

Gallentte, Amarr and Caldari gunboats all need cap to use thier weapons, whereas Minmatar weapons do not need cap

also looks wise, Amarr and Gallentte ships look sweet and will look even better in the Trinity patch. Caldari could look good if only CCP would make them symetrical and Minmatar ships are flying scrapheaps with lots of guns nd big engines strapped to them

mom04girls

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Re: Amarr vs Gallente ships
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2007, 09:38:50 am »
Wow that was extremely helpful thank you for the input

I was able to test caldari with a drake it represented the basic idea of a shield tank with missile usage at a relatively low cost $30mil to buy and $60mil to put mods on. I was able to train within 10 days for a good passive tank, missile usage, and rigs. Is there an emarr ship that would serve the same purpose as far as quick to train and represent how it would feel to use lasers/armor tank to do missions up to lvl 4 and have a reasonably cheap fit less then $100mi?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 09:59:49 am by mom04girls »

svzurich

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Re: Amarr vs Gallente ships
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2007, 09:12:01 pm »
Not really, no.  You have to max most ships' skill to 5 (frig 5, cruiser 5, battleship 5) to cut laser cap use in half, and passive shield tanking is hard to beat.  A Harbinger is a damn good ship in the right hands. but mine is hard to handle in L3s at times.  For PVE, Caldari is easy mode.  Amarr really need skills.

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Re: Amarr vs Gallente ships
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2007, 03:16:25 pm »
Amarr ROCKS....just dont fly abaddon...arugor, pilgrim, maladiction, ...or either of the asult frigs

MrCue

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Re: Amarr vs Gallente ships
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2007, 03:19:46 pm »
Amarr ROCKS....just dont fly abaddon...arugor, pilgrim, maladiction, ...or either of the asult frigs
Please, feel free to post your reasons for this statment, and ways to make them desirable.

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Re: Amarr vs Gallente ships
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2007, 05:43:43 pm »
Amarr ROCKS....just dont fly abaddon...arugor, pilgrim, maladiction, ...or either of the asult frigs

lol

so dont fly all the ships that actualy rock then?

svzurich

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Re: Amarr vs Gallente ships
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2007, 09:06:48 pm »
Abaddon just lacks the standard laser cap reduction bonus per battleship level.  I think that up to 50% reduction is more than balanced by the up to 25% damage bonus it gets instead.  The Abaddon rocks! 

I also love my Retribution, Malediction, Crusador, and the Sacrilege (latter 3 I will be able to fly "soon").  Plus I prefer the Arbitrator over the Vexor.  Unlimited ammo for lasers, low mass and high speed for the Intys, and the soon to be much larger drone bay for the cruiser are why.

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Re: Amarr vs Gallente ships
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2007, 12:36:33 pm »
Amarr is undoubtedly the gimped race of EVE. Lasers suck and the ship bonuses are a joke: you need them at max just to USE your own race's weapons. Devs keep saying they are going to balance Amarr so they can compete somehow, but don't believe it - they've been saying it for nearly two years now.

But then, I guess what most of these guys are saying is correct: Amarr require mince skills. I am a 2.4 million SP player (been playing for 2 months) and Amarr totally sucks for me. So I guess they are onto something...
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svzurich

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Re: Amarr vs Gallente ships
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2007, 02:34:06 pm »
The Devs did kind of give Amarr a boost for the Khanid ships.  Sacrilege can tank and gank now, while the Zealot is effectively useless since its T1 version can out DPS it.  Sac can use Heavy Assault Missiles with a full tank.  :D

Amarr can take advantage of the EM hole.  That's where people gear up to resist everything with active hardeners and ignore EM resistance (figuring EANMs are good enough).  Often EM resistance will be left lower than the other 3, and lasers can exploit that.

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Re: Amarr vs Gallente ships
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2007, 02:45:05 pm »
The Devs did kind of give Amarr a boost for the Khanid ships.  Sacrilege can tank and gank now, while the Zealot is effectively useless since its T1 version can out DPS it.  Sac can use Heavy Assault Missiles with a full tank.  :D

Amarr can take advantage of the EM hole.  That's where people gear up to resist everything with active hardeners and ignore EM resistance (figuring EANMs are good enough).  Often EM resistance will be left lower than the other 3, and lasers can exploit that.

Utter crap!

Please show me this mystical EM hole. I would really like to know where you see this at.

In reality EM gets a 60% base resist, higher then any other base resist. Matter of fact the Maelstrom gets a 70% base resist.

Not to mention that Amarr are stuck doing EM/Therm dmg while every other race can switch dmg.

EDIT: Exp also has a 60% base resist, but what race is stuck doing Exp?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 02:46:36 pm by thakskybld »

Axmathos

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Re: Amarr vs Gallente ships
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2007, 02:50:13 pm »
The new Khanid ships can switch damage. 

Edit: now that I have some info to back up my theory.

Go take a look at the Caldari ships.  Yes, not everyone is going to fly them in pvp, but many of the ships I looked at (drake, nighthawk, raven) have no shield EM resist as a base.  Yes they have 60% armor em resist, but I don't think that'll take long to crack on a shield tanker.  I'm sure minmitar has something similar in their shield tanking ships, so go check your facts before you make blanket statements.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 03:01:21 pm by Axmathos »

thakskybld

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Re: Amarr vs Gallente ships
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2007, 02:59:00 pm »
The new Khanid ships can switch damage. 

Umm yeah...great. A few of our ships can switch dmg IF you bothered training missiles.

At 22 mil Sp's (All in Amarr) I can say that just now I feel like I can fly amarr ships without feeling gimped and no, I haven't trained missiles yet.

And this still doesn't address the fact that "there is no EM hole" and that the majority of our ships are stuck doing EM/Therm.

Axmathos

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Re: Amarr vs Gallente ships
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2007, 03:05:41 pm »
Well all I can say is you knew what you were doing when you trained Amarr for a year and a half, since I'm sure at some point durring this time, you heard about/observed their flaws.

Myself, I have an Amarr alt, and she's training for a dread, and I'm not expecting to do much other pvping with her, but who knows? I might try it out.

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Re: Amarr vs Gallente ships
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2007, 03:09:15 pm »
Well all I can say is you knew what you were doing when you trained Amarr for a year and a half, since I'm sure at some point durring this time, you heard about/observed their flaws.

Myself, I have an Amarr alt, and she's training for a dread, and I'm not expecting to do much other pvping with her, but who knows? I might try it out.

Of course I knew what i was doing, but that doesn't mean I didn't realize that CCP would leave the Amarr hanging for so long either.

My point was not to whine about amarr but to dispute that EM is the weakess link crap.

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Re: Amarr vs Gallente ships
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2007, 03:16:44 pm »
It is the weakest link for shield tankers (caldari at least, presumably for minnie too).

Edit: look on the bright side, every kill you do get should be extra sweet, since the Amarr are behind the other races, and more embarassing for those you kill.

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Re: Amarr vs Gallente ships
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2007, 03:25:03 pm »
It is the weakest link for shield tankers (caldari at least, presumably for minnie too).

Edit: look on the bright side, every kill you do get should be extra sweet, since the Amarr are behind the other races, and more embarassing for those you kill.

Again, you are wrong.

Think of it this way.

An amarr and minnie are in a fight, the amarr is armor tanking and the minnie is shield tanking.

The amarr has to beat down at least 70% res to EM on a omni tank then get through the 60% (possible 70%) on the armor. (with no mods I might add)

Where are the minne has to deal with a base shield res of no more than 30% and only worry about an armor tank.

EM is NOT the weakess link.

I would suggest heading over to the Eve-O forums and check out the "ultimate amarr whine" thread. I would link it but I am at work. It gives a great insight to the amarr blight.